Interesting Topic In Chat

hemihead

hemihead

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A topic came up in chat I found interesting with varying opinions . Discussed was knowledge and schooling . I tend to believe that knowledge is more than just memorizing facts and repeating them . I can repeat facts all day . And it means nothing . I think that using those facts combined with independent thinking equals invention and furthering human advancement . As I stated in chat , I know people with College Degrees that perform the basic functions of everyday personal life without help or having to research it . I think that College is very much over hyped . A piece of paper doesn't make you intelligent . What do you get for 4 or more years ? A well paying , cozy job in an office where the most work you get is lifting a phone or typing on the computer ? Sure . But you also get College debt and dead brain cells from the drugs and alcohol of 4 years and lucky if you didn't get an STD .
Note : This is merely my opinion , and my opinion means nothing in this world . So if you went to college , please don't get butthurt and defensive about my comments forementioned .
 
The value of those degrees has changed over the years.

There's a meme going around about the "naive/out-of-touch Baby Boomer" who doesn't understand the life-paths that they took don't translate well to today. I think this is largely true and one of the biggest ways is the college degree.

As a result of the success of college-bound Boomers, young people are very strongly encouraged to attend college as a sort of job-panacea. I remember very distinctly in high school all the talk and impressions (From students, faculty, and guidance staff) surrounding college: If you don't go, you're a stoned loser who is destined to flip burgers or sling garbage until you croak far from the light of goodness.

This kind of approach has lead predictably to the glut of over-qualified basement dwellers we see today. In my opinion, largely based on the research of one Charles Murray, higher education attendance could probably be cut in half (at least) without any loss in "true" qualifications. The vast number of people in higher education receive essentially no benefit, and HUGE detriments, namely wasted time and absurd debt.

If virtually all children are being steered toward college, but half the population is below average intelligence, what did we think would happen?

I have friends and relatives in higher education and they've seen the obvious results: Students who are attending college at massive expense simply to become "well-rounded" or "gain experience" (As if university was the only way to obtain life experience...), who pass by the seat of their pants, who find a "C" grade acceptable, who funnel into easy and/or subjective classes, who flunk out by the hundreds (Says the Dean: No refund for you, suckers!)... And on and on.

College can be a valuable experience, there is no doubt about it. But the majority of us plebs are wasting ourselves in pursuit of something we are incapable of reaching.

On a related note, part of this focus on university has been a feedback loop with employers. I doubt it's the same in all places, but North American governments banned the use of intelligence tests by employers. As such, they need a new way of quickly gauging the competence of their prospective employees: The degree, which serves as a far less accurate, but manageable proxy.

As the degree devalues, the higher the standard. (Not just BA, but your MA, and so on.)
 
Telemachus said:
The value of those degrees has changed over the years.

There's a meme going around about the "naive/out-of-touch Baby Boomer" who doesn't understand the life-paths that they took don't translate well to today. I think this is largely true and one of the biggest ways is the college degree.

As a result of the success of college-bound Boomers, young people are very strongly encouraged to attend college as a sort of job-panacea. I remember very distinctly in high school all the talk and impressions (From students, faculty, and guidance staff) surrounding college: If you don't go, you're a stoned loser who is destined to flip burgers or sling garbage until you croak far from the light of goodness.

This kind of approach has lead predictably to the glut of over-qualified basement dwellers we see today. In my opinion, largely based on the research of one Charles Murray, higher education attendance could probably be cut in half (at least) without any loss in "true" qualifications. The vast number of people in higher education receive essentially no benefit, and HUGE detriments, namely wasted time and absurd debt.
I am one of those babyboomers . And I see extremely unqualified young adults attending college today not only because of things like Parental pressure , peer pressure , and hopes of an easy do nothing job that pays well but also as a way to delay taking on adult responsibilties for 4 years or more . A continuation of their partying High School years but with more freedom and no parents to tell them no . And what the Colleges are teaching them is useless and the standards to get accepted so low it's a world laugh stock . All driven by Colleges which are driven by a school board who are stock holders . Colleges are nothing more than a big business ( like Walmart ) and people should at them as such . In my opinion , if you have a degree , big deal . Doesn't mean that you know more or better than a person who is a Waitress or a plumber . It just means that you got to stay immature for years longer and waste lots of money .
If virtually all children are being steered toward college, but half the population is below average intelligence, what did we think would happen?

I have friends and relatives in higher education and they've seen the obvious results: Students who are attending college at massive expense simply to become "well-rounded" or "gain experience" (As if university was the only way to obtain life experience...), who pass by the seat of their pants, who find a "C" grade acceptable, who funnel into easy and/or subjective classes, who flunk out by the hundreds (Says the Dean: No refund for you, suckers!)... And on and on.

College can be a valuable experience, there is no doubt about it. But the majority of us plebs are wasting ourselves in pursuit of something we are incapable of reaching.

On a related note, part of this focus on university has been a feedback loop with employers. I doubt it's the same in all places, but North American governments banned the use of intelligence tests by employers. As such, they need a new way of quickly gauging the competence of their prospective employees: The degree, which serves as a far less accurate, but manageable proxy.

As the degree devalues, the higher the standard. (Not just BA, but your MA, and so on.)
Click to expand...
 
hemihead said:
A topic came up in chat I found interesting with varying opinions . Discussed was knowledge and schooling . I tend to believe that knowledge is more than just memorizing facts and repeating them . I can repeat facts all day . And it means nothing . I think that using those facts combined with independent thinking equals invention and furthering human advancement . As I stated in chat , I know people with College Degrees that perform the basic functions of everyday personal life without help or having to research it . I think that College is very much over hyped . A piece of paper doesn't make you intelligent . What do you get for 4 or more years ? A well paying , cozy job in an office where the most work you get is lifting a phone or typing on the computer ? Sure . But you also get College debt and dead brain cells from the drugs and alcohol of 4 years and lucky if you didn't get an STD .
Note : This is merely my opinion , and my opinion means nothing in this world . So if you went to college , please don't get butthurt and defensive about my comments forementioned .
Click to expand...
I had the luck to go to a university where part of the teachers were external professional. Looking back at that time, I can see know that the "normal" teacher had a non realistic view of things due to their lack of experience in the professional world and I can recognize situation that our external teacher were using to illustrate their points.
However, University/college is still good because it (is supposed) to form you to think. Teaching someone to learn is more important that the accumulation of knowledge itself.
You can have all the knowledge in the world, but if you cannot connect the dots because you cannot reason that knowledge is of no use
 
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I graduated 5 years ago and I still have more than 90% of my degree left to pay off. Should have just skipped that, done an advanced diploma at college then worked. Argh, UK education system.
 
hemihead said:
A topic came up in chat I found interesting with varying opinions . Discussed was knowledge and schooling . I tend to believe that knowledge is more than just memorizing facts and repeating them . I can repeat facts all day . And it means nothing . I think that using those facts combined with independent thinking equals invention and furthering human advancement . As I stated in chat , I know people with College Degrees that perform the basic functions of everyday personal life without help or having to research it . I think that College is very much over hyped . A piece of paper doesn't make you intelligent . What do you get for 4 or more years ? A well paying , cozy job in an office where the most work you get is lifting a phone or typing on the computer ? Sure . But you also get College debt and dead brain cells from the drugs and alcohol of 4 years and lucky if you didn't get an STD .
Note : This is merely my opinion , and my opinion means nothing in this world . So if you went to college , please don't get butthurt and defensive about my comments forementioned .
Click to expand...
I happened to dislike college. Keeping to myself was difficult, and I felt that I wasn't learning anything. Doesn't make it unimportant, as its almost a nesesscity to get a decent job these days.
 
hemihead said:
A topic came up in chat I found interesting with varying opinions . Discussed was knowledge and schooling . I tend to believe that knowledge is more than just memorizing facts and repeating them . I can repeat facts all day . And it means nothing . I think that using those facts combined with independent thinking equals invention and furthering human advancement . As I stated in chat , I know people with College Degrees that perform the basic functions of everyday personal life without help or having to research it . I think that College is very much over hyped . A piece of paper doesn't make you intelligent . What do you get for 4 or more years ? A well paying , cozy job in an office where the most work you get is lifting a phone or typing on the computer ? Sure . But you also get College debt and dead brain cells from the drugs and alcohol of 4 years and lucky if you didn't get an STD .
Note : This is merely my opinion , and my opinion means nothing in this world . So if you went to college , please don't get butthurt and defensive about my comments forementioned .
Click to expand...

I suppose my university experience differs from the typical American college one because I went to school out of America as an adult. I decided to work after high school before pursuing my degree. I have no doubt that the younger crowd who were in classes with me fully involved themselves in the whole drinking/clubbing/sex experience. For me, as a part-time student with a full-time job, that wasn't what I did. No time, no energy. It was all I could do to work on assignments and study for exams while coping with work and life. I didn't acquire the crapton of debt of American students, because at the time when I studied, tertiary education was fully funded by the government for undergrads and partially funded for postgrads, and you repaid them by working in the public service for a certain number of years. Now, they fund based on merit.

To an extent I do agree that a lot of my undergraduate studies was learning facts. But the application of the knowledge one gained was also taught. You had to use the facts learnt to puzzle out questions, and that became even more apparent at the postgraduate level. Knowing the information wasn't enough. Hell all our exams were open text! That really didn't help as much as one would think because all the exam questions were situation-based. Knowing the info wasn't enough at all. Quoting definitions and facts was a guaranteed fail. You had to demonstrate that you could apply that knowledge to the business-related cases they presented to work through an answer and present a plausible solution, based on theory and business sense.

There are a lot of different intelligences, and yes, intelligences is a word, so don't come for me! People do have multiple intelligences and can become quite successful with minimal schooling. I personally know people who are much better off than I am financially who stopped school after the primary level. For me, I am interested in becoming a professional in my field, and that requires me to have academic certification. For now I do have an office job, but I have built a solid professional network and met some great people, things I would not have been able to do without my qualifications. A necessary evil is what I would like to think of higher education, for me and some of my friends and peers.

I know that's not for everyone. Some people are way happier learning technical/vocational skills, and those are necessary. Some forge their own way ahead without any type of certification, and all of that is cool in my esteem. We need all of it to make this world complete.
 
hemihead said:
A topic came up in chat I found interesting with varying opinions . Discussed was knowledge and schooling . I tend to believe that knowledge is more than just memorizing facts and repeating them . I can repeat facts all day . And it means nothing . I think that using those facts combined with independent thinking equals invention and furthering human advancement . As I stated in chat , I know people with College Degrees that perform the basic functions of everyday personal life without help or having to research it . I think that College is very much over hyped . A piece of paper doesn't make you intelligent . What do you get for 4 or more years ? A well paying , cozy job in an office where the most work you get is lifting a phone or typing on the computer ? Sure . But you also get College debt and dead brain cells from the drugs and alcohol of 4 years and lucky if you didn't get an STD .
Note : This is merely my opinion , and my opinion means nothing in this world . So if you went to college , please don't get butthurt and defensive about my comments forementioned .
Click to expand...
I am studying cyber security in technical myself and my hunch is others too will have mainly gathered most of there experience from the wild as apposed to school.
 
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